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Deploy preview for privacytools-io ready! Built with commit b8781e4 |
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We could also expand on data sovereignty, although this is really something I want to address in https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/1437 |
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Some small nit-picky suggestions (haven't reviewed all of it but this is so far).
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Looks good, but do not understand why Mailbox.org is above Posteo or Protonmail? Edit: Just on a basic look through of ThatOnePrivacySite:
I do not understand how this rating list can be justified. |
They are in no particular order. The order is the first to be compliant with the criteria, though that being said Soverin should be moved down, as they are less compliant. Disroot will most likely be removed unless they have encryption at rest and 2FA. |
Perhaps I am wrong, but I also don't understand why Mailbox.org is being listed. Otherwise Posteo has been my go to, in part because of their transparency report. Also, I do think that "first provider to meet requirements" might be a bad idea. The original VPN section was set up as "Recommended" and "Worth Mentioning". |
It's based on the criteria. Mailbox meets that criteria so I don't see why it wouldn't be listed. Currently a this time of writing Tutanota and Kolab Now do not. Soverin does, but they do lack zero knowledge encryption, something that we rate pretty highly. Posteo might get a higher position than Soverin because it was first to meet our requirements. Additionally it does support encryption of contacts/calendars. It is also worth noting though posteo.de does not allow users to have their own domain. This binds user's identity exclusively to that particular provider. Everyone has differing opinions on this issue hence the criteria.
We've moved away from that. What we're doing now is having a baseline of requirements then annually tightening them as more providers meet those 'best case' requirements. We do not see the point in mentioning anything less than the best. Note that 2FA is a base requirement, an email account is the gateway a user has to any other account and thus we see it as a necessary feature. |
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I am thinking it might be a good idea to have a bit of a subsection for webmail vs standard protocols (IMAP, JMAP, POP3, SMTP etc). This is a contentious point where many say we should either make one or the other a base requirement. There are pros and cons for each depending on one's threat model however, which is why I am reluctant to make it a base requirement. Webmail:Pros:
Cons:
IMAP/POP/SMTP/JMAP/:Pros:
Cons:
Custom client (eg Tutanota):Pros:
Cons:
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Thought I'd leave some suggestions and corrections.
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grammar 'n stuff
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Hi, @blacklight447-ptio asked for our feedback on the new e-mail page. These are our suggestions: General
mailbox.org
Technology
Mailvelope is a web browser addon that offers OpenPGP in the web browser. So a Mailvelope user may be confused when reading "Use OpenPGP instead of in-browser crypto" while using OpenPGP in the web browser. Furthermore, you oftentimes mention "zero-access encryption". This sounds like marketing lingo, likely introduced by ProtonMail. Maybe, you should use a more general term. PrivacyYou should add the following minimum requirements:
Security
Please mention the standards U2F and WebAuthn here, because both YK and NK support TOTP so a user might not understand the difference. Since there are some people that don't understand the difference between TOTP and U2F/WebAuthn, and/or are convinced that U2F/WebAuthn is actually less secure than TOTP, there should be a small note about the benefits of U2F/WebAuthn (e.g., more convinient to use, uses a private key on the user's device instead of relying on a shared secret, more phishing resistant). Finally, we think that a strict Content Security Policy should be a minimum requirement for the web interface. Strict CSPs block most current client-side web browser attacks (like XSS or Clickjacking) and blocking these attacks makes perfect sense when using a web client to access your e-mails. |
Thanks for your reply @infosec-handbook there are some very good suggestions there. I think some of the most obvious ones might have slipped in from changes I accepted. (re SSL and TLS point). I'll get to work updating this. |
General
Unless all data is decrypted on the client there will always be some data accessible to the provider. Even providers which aim to do this, ie ProtonMail, Tutanota etc will have some data that is not encrypted ie incoming unencrypted emails, metadata etc. The technology isn't there to make any kind of requirement on this, especially for smaller providers not developing their own proprietary solutions. mailbox.org
They do for webmail, customers can even choose to buy a Yubikey direct from Mailbox pre-enrolled: You can then set the security level: And method: Or you can enroll a key that you purchased elsewhere: I think it might only support the Yubikey though.
I have made a note of that privacytoolsIO/privacy-tools@00d0021 . There is some degree of trust placed in the provider. Technology
I think I have clarified that with privacytoolsIO/privacy-tools@c122bcb
The industry term tends to be "zero knowledge cryptography", however "access" I think is more precise. Knowledge might infer they don't know you've used cryptography? I can see why ProtonMail and others have started referring to it as "zero access". It's not a trademarked term, so I don't see any issues in using that term. PrivacyYou should add the following minimum requirements:
Done: privacytoolsIO/privacy-tools@2ebb28c
I'd say all our providers meet this:
Added this requirement privacytoolsIO/privacy-tools@27e0bf3 Security
Yes, this is an error, we're not specifying specific hardware products, as that will be out of scope and in scope of the hardware section being worked on by others. Fixed privacytoolsIO/privacy-tools@c95fa40
At the moment the only provider which we have that meets that is Posteo and Mailbox.org. We might approach providers and ask them to do this for a later tightening of the requirements. |
I've also decided to remove the base requirement on standard access protocols added in privacytoolsIO/privacy-tools@3046548#diff-8cc7b2b0d78dd2501610391c086a8516R41 and privacytoolsIO/privacy-tools@b52f6b7#diff-5e5aab7d4c183162a48e6efc2270b5a8R45. The reason we believe something like this should exist is for data liberty purposes. Users should have the freedom to move from one provider to another without the possibility of having their data difficult to obtain, import or export. The argument about "in browser cryptography" for E2EE is actually more complicated than it would seem at a glance. One side of the argument says that using email clients like Thunderbird for example is "more secure" than using cryptography served to you in your browser because of reduced "surface area". While concerns about XSS style attacks and crap implementations are valid, there are things that mitigate this, eg. strict CSPs, well designed and reviewed code etc. The argument also doesn't consider browser plugins like Mailvelope. These plugins have been audited, are not served by the provider, but are technically "in browser". The side that argues for mail clients also argues that email providers should not produce cryptography, because they have knowledge of their own systems, and if they have knowledge of the actual code doing the cryptography, they could compromise it to not work, send plaintext copy etc. This would certainly be a concern for any company operating in Australia eg with the Assistance and Access Bill, or this less dense summary. Therefore we would not be recommending any provider which did not have an open source client, or seemed apprehensive about alternate distribution channels like F-Droid, Linux repos etc where there are reproducible builds exist. We do believe third party verification is paramount to putting a stop to government mandated backdoors. The argument also assumes that users are the ones which are faultless and that it will be the provider which in fact suffers the breach. In reality we know this is often not the case. Standard access protocols often mean that exotic multi factor authentication systems need by-passes, such as application specific passwords etc in order to keep access open for legacy email clients. Unfortunately the approach that Google uses ie. as an OAuth provider doesn't seem that common. It is in fact actually possible to login using a Google account, and access IMAP, with 2FA. Typically on Thunderbird, when someone puts in their email address It would be nice to see the Autoconfiguration mechanism more popular, one doesn't even need to store it in Mozilla's ISPDB, they can put it in example.com/.well-known/autoconfig/mail/config-v1.1.xml directory. |
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Thanks for your changes, @dngray.
mailbox.org seems to use Yubico OTP via Yubico Cloud. It makes sense that they can preconfigure a YubiKey when purchased on their website in this case. All other references are always "OTP", not "U2F". Furthermore, they support OATH-TOTP and OATH-HOTP according to the screenshots. There are actually open requests for U2F and WebAuthn support. Both requests are still open. So it seems that there is no support for U2F.
(You changed this line today.) U2F/WebAuthn are considered more phishing resistant because during authentication, the tokens calculate an authentication response based on the current domain name in the web browser. For instance, if you are on paypal.com and use U2F, the token gets a challenge from the web browser and sends back its correct response. However, if you are on paypa1.com, the token calculates its response using paypa1.com as the domain. This results in a wrong response that is still sent to the server. An attacker can't use this wrong response for authentication. This mechanism assumes that the web browser correctly verified the identity of the web server via an HTTPS certificate. On the other hand, OATH-TOTP calculates its response (the 6-digit one-time password) based on the current time and a shared secret. This shared secret is generated by the web server and sent to the client during setup (e.g., using a QR code). The client-side TOTP application then stores this secret and uses it for generating OTPs in the future. This is less secure than U2F/WebAuthn since the web server not only knows the secret but it also generates it (and you don't know if this was a random value). So a server-side attacker could extract this shared secret. Contrary to this, U2F/WebAuthn tokens contain a private key that never leaves the client-side token. The web server can't store any secrets. Regarding phishing, there is no protection when using OATH-TOTP. A fake website like paypa1.com can first ask for your username and password and then for your TOTP secret. A man-in-the-middle can directly use this for authentication (yes, in reality, the code is only valid for up to 30 seconds, but this is sufficient for automated attacks). To cut a long story short, we suggest the following changes:
(Feel free to reword this if necessary!) |
Ah yes, you're right. How does privacytoolsIO/privacy-tools@7d21d54 sound. For record purposes, I've included a screenshot of the other options:
That was also my understanding from https://webauthn.guide hence the "scoped" part of it.
Agreed 100%. Realistically anything like that would certainly be automated. I also think that hardware keys have a much better user experience, in terms of flow:
vs
This is particularly for older or disabled people, who are more likely to get tricked by
I actually really like the way you worded that. It's very succinct and to the point, (which is the main objective), so I have left it as is. privacytoolsIO/privacy-tools@7d407e9 |
I think we may need to make corrections to the posteo description:
Looking at How can I use a YubiKey for two-factor authentication with Posteo? it says
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Great work folks, im excited to finally launch the new page!
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Reading through the preview (not code or checking that links work as Matrix gave me an impresssion of urgency) LGTM.
Yeah the code and links have been checked multiple times, I think by now. |
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I guess the svgs are still fine
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🙃
Is there a reason for listing Disroot, but not Rainloop? |
Rainloop is an email client, not an email provider |
https://deploy-preview-1672--privacytools-io.netlify.com/providers/email/
Note still a work in progress, and is subject to change. Not merging before March 2020
Closes: #144
Closes: #603
Closes: #733
Closes: #1038
Closes: #1345
Closes: #1626
Closes: #1652
Closes: #1671
Closes: #1670 (Superseeding it)
Closes: #1673