Butchering proficiencies

[GuardianDll]

Summary

Features "Butchering now require proficiency to do it fast and effectively"

Purpose of change

Close #54392

Describe the solution

Add four proficiencies:

• Basic butchery (drastically reduces flesh obtained from butchering and speed of butchering),
• Advanced butchery (same as basic, but has only little effect),
• Basic and Advanced skinning (same as butchery)

Lack of butchery_basic applies little (10-15%) penalty to amount of meat, but huge (~2x) penalty to speed
Having butchery_basic still has some less than moderate speed penalty
Having butchery_adv removes this penalty

Lack of skinning_basic applies little penalty to speed, but massive penalty to skin dropped
Having skinning_basic applies less than moderate penalty to skin dropped
Having skinning_adv removes this penalty

Testing

TBD, trying to solve error in loops, that causes crazy things like @screenshot
UPD: current numbers are like this:

• for meat output (quick butchering cow with butcher knife):

• • unmodified game: 60 kg of meat
• • character with no proficiency: 53 kg of meat
• • character with basic proficiencies: 60 kg of meat
• • character with adv proficiency: 60 kg

• for time spend:

• • unmodified game:
    
• • character with no proficiency:
    
• • character with basic proficiencies (butchering, skinning):
    
• • character with adv proficiencies:
    

Additional context

I would like to add few more stuff, but it would not fit the game really - proper bleeding of the corpse, lack of bleeding causing it smell and taste bad are two what i thought about
Also maybe i should treat quick butchery more laxed than full butchery?

TODO in future prs: make butchery snippets, make event for butchery finish, make snippets for it also
maybe todo in future: bleeding or lack of it affect meat quality?

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[NetSysFire]

Dont forget to add the butchering proficiency to some of the backgrounds/hobbies.

[TheShadowFerret]

I think the X hunters should get either basic skinning or basic butchering, all of them do carry hunting knives.

[harakka]

I'm not sure if evisceration distinct from butchery really makes sense. These things kinda go hand in hand in practice.

[GuardianDll]

sound reasonable, gotta throw it away same as bleeding prof
upd: hmm, it will mess up leaning stuff a bit

[Night-Pryanik]

I don't like the idea of corpse's meat magically disappearing into nowhere if you're not so skilled in butchering. Maybe the remaining meat from the corpse should be converted to meat scraps?

[GuardianDll]

it's not magically disappeared, it is transformed into butchery refuse

[GuardianDll]

I see what you mean now, I'll tweak it tomorrow to apply speed penalty relatively to the type of butchery (and how long skinning/butchering step lasts in it)

[RedMisao]

I think the mass penalties are too harsh, considering there's also time penalties. I do think the latter should be the primary component over the former, given that unless you somehow destroy or discard otherwise usable flesh, it can still be handled by meat scraps.

Speaking from experience butchering small animals (chicken, fish, rabbit), there's only two possibilities:

1. You either do it efficiently and obtain the maximum possible amount of meat (optimal amount), or
2. You do it inneficiently by wasting time while getting less than the optimal amount, which is usually stick to the bones or to the skin by cutting it improperly.

There is no way you lose ~40% (25 kg) of the maximum amount of meat (60 kg) by spending twice the total time handling the carcass. That means there's almost half still stuck to the bones or the skin, which is not just useless but also can't be scrapped away. One thing is to hack so bad you mix the cuts (i.e. drumstick with a chunk of the thighs), another is to make it 100% useless for consumption.

[IdleSol]

For example, you could damage the intestines (guts?). And its contents will spill out onto the meat. I think that's a typical rookie mistake. Is this meat considered spoiled? Does it meet the 50% mark? I don't know.

Forgetting to drain the blood or not draining all the blood. Does this sort of count as spoiled meat? Would it be considered spoiled under cataclysmic conditions?

[GuardianDll]

No, lack of drain is, at first, not emulated, and second, do not spoil the meat quality to the unusable level
Damaging digestive system, spilling organ content, ineffective cuts (tho this one is tricky, because we don't have "meat on a bone" thing, only them being separately) is what i considered the consequences of bad skill.
@RedMisao i should remind that we talk about quick butchery, not full one, it is lossy butchery type on its own
Despite i don't like it (because i already spend time making it), it is a strong argument to make butchery not affect amount of meat obtained, but affect only the speed of it

So, in short:
Lack of butchery_basic applies little (10-15%) penalty to amount of meat, but huge (same as now) penalty to speed
Having butchery_basic still has some less than moderate speed penalty
Having butchery_adv removes this penalty

Lack of skinning_basic applies little penalty to speed, but massive penalty to skin dropped
Having skinning_basic applies less than moderate penalty to skin dropped
Having skinning_adv removes this penalty

And the speed of butchery should be revisited in the future to match real life numbers, not 2 hours to butcher an entire cow

Sounds good for me

[IdleSol]

Is it possible that I'm misunderstanding? Is there a mistake?

 // 40% of butchering and gutting, 40% of skinning, 20% another activities
        time_to_cut *= 1 + ( penalty_small * ( 1 - butch_adv ) * 0.4 );
        time_to_cut *= 1 + ( penalty_big * ( 1 - butch_basic ) * 0.4 );
        time_to_cut *= 1 + ( penalty_small * ( 1 - skin_basic ) * 0.4 );

This turns into a sequential multiplication of penalties, doesn't it? I.e. again we take the total cutting time and multiply it by three penalties. Instead of taking a part of the total time and penalizing only that part (with the appropriate penalty).

Or have you decided not to do that?

And there's a strange way the 40% factor is taken into account. We don't take 40% of the time, we take 40% of the penalty.

[GuardianDll]

that's on me
would this one work now?

[HadeanLake]

pr body (before edits) was showing that full butchering takes twice as much time with 0 prof
penalties to achieve that with new formula are:
penalty_small = 0.5;
penalty_big = 1.5;

[IdleSol]

@GuardianDll

If I have not made a mistake in my calculations, then everything is correct. Although such a record, in my opinion, is difficult to understand.

[GuardianDll]

what record?

[IdleSol]

Prof	0.25/0.75	0.5/1.5
none	x 1.5	x 2.0
b_butch	x 1.4	x 1.8
b_skin	x 1.4	x 1.8
b_butch & b_skin	x 1.3	x 1.6
b_butch & a_butch	x 1.1	x 1.2
b_butch & a_butch & b_skin	x 1.0	x 1.0

what record?

The way you wrote the formula to calculate it.

[IdleSol]

    double butch_basic = you.get_proficiency_practice( proficiency_prof_butchering_basic );
    double butch_adv = you.get_proficiency_practice( proficiency_prof_butchering_adv );
    double skin_basic = you.get_proficiency_practice( proficiency_prof_skinning_basic );
    double penalty_small = 0.25;
    double penalty_big = 0.75;
--    int prof_penalty = 0; 
++  int prof_butch_penalty = penalty_big * ( 1 - butch_basic ) + penalty_small * ( 1 - butch_adv );
++  int prof_skin_penalty = penalty_small * ( 1 - skin_basic );

    if( action == butcher_type::FULL ) {
        // 40% of butchering and gutting, 40% of skinning, 20% another activities
--        prof_penalty += ( time_to_cut * 0.4 ) * penalty_small * ( 1 - butch_adv );
--        prof_penalty += ( time_to_cut * 0.4 ) * penalty_big * ( 1 - butch_basic );
--        prof_penalty += ( time_to_cut * 0.4 ) * penalty_small * ( 1 - skin_basic );

--        time_to_cut += prof_penalty;

++      time_to_cut *= 0.4 * ( 1 + prof_butch_penalty ) + 0.4 * ( 1 + prof_skin_penalty ) + 0.2;
    }

    if( action == butcher_type::QUICK ) {
        // 70% of butchery, 15% skinning, 15% another activities
--        prof_penalty += ( time_to_cut * 0.7 ) * penalty_small * ( 1 - butch_adv );
--        prof_penalty += ( time_to_cut * 0.7 ) * penalty_big * ( 1 - butch_basic );
--        prof_penalty += ( time_to_cut * 0.15 ) * penalty_small * ( 1 - skin_basic );

--        time_to_cut += prof_penalty;

++      time_to_cut *= 0.7 * ( 1 + prof_butch_penalty ) + 0.15 * ( 1 + prof_skin_penalty ) + 0.15;
    }

    if( action == butcher_type::FIELD_DRESS ) {
--        prof_penalty += time_to_cut * penalty_small * ( 1 - butch_adv );
--        prof_penalty += time_to_cut * penalty_big * ( 1 - butch_basic );

--        time_to_cut += prof_penalty;

++      time_to_cut *=  1 + prof_butch_penalty
    }

    if( action == butcher_type::SKIN ) {
--        prof_penalty += time_to_cut  * penalty_small * ( 1 - skin_basic );

--        time_to_cut += prof_penalty;
++      time_to_cut *=  1 + prof_skin_penalty
    }

[IdleSol]

By the way, what if we do this:

double knife_skills = you.get_proficiency_practice( proficiency_prof_knife_skills );
double penalty_big = 1.25 + 0.25 * (1 - knife_skills);

Cataclysm-DDA/data/json/proficiencies/comestibles.json

Line 15 in 33970f5

"id": "prof_knife_skills",

[GuardianDll]

i like it, but i suspect having no knife skill above of not knowing how to butcher need to penalize thing even more (but also train knife skill)

penalty_big = 1.5 + 0.5 * (1 - knife_skills)

?

[GuardianDll]

oh, wrong, proficiency specifically says about chopping, not at carving meat from the bones and skin from the meat, so it doesn't fit here

[IdleSol]

Why not? Although I thought the 1.5 factor already incorporated poor knife handling.

oh, wrong, proficiency specifically says about chopping, not at carving meat from the bones and skin from the meat, so it doesn't fit here

We have a strange way of butchering bodies in our game. For some reason we immediately separate meat from bones and cut it into equal pieces. From this point of view, this skill could work.

Alternative:

Cataclysm-DDA/data/json/proficiencies/melee_weapons.json

Lines 86 to 89 in 33970f5

	"id": "prof_knives_familiar",
	"category": "prof_combat",
	"name": { "str": "Knife Familiarity" },
	"description": "You've got a handling on gripping knives so they don't slip out of your hand.",

Cataclysm-DDA/data/json/proficiencies/melee_weapons.json

Lines 99 to 102 in 33970f5

	"id": "prof_knives_pro",
	"category": "prof_combat",
	"name": { "str": "Knife Proficiency" },
	"description": "You handle your knife like a butcher, and are ready to prove it.",

Cataclysm-DDA/data/json/proficiencies/melee_weapons.json

Lines 113 to 116 in 33970f5

	"id": "prof_knives_master",
	"category": "prof_combat",
	"name": { "str": "Knife Mastery" },
	"description": "Your knife is like an extension of yourself, you wield it effortlessly.",

But I don't like it. Combat professions are best left for combat.