diff --git a/public/wasix-in-ziglang-archive.mht b/public/wasix-in-ziglang-archive.mht new file mode 100644 index 0000000..3fb551d --- /dev/null +++ b/public/wasix-in-ziglang-archive.mht @@ -0,0 +1,55824 @@ +From: +Snapshot-Content-Location: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/17115 +Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Support=20WASIX=20=C2=B7=20Issue=20#17115=20=C2=B7=20ziglang/zig?= +Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 22:15:32 -0000 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/related; + type="text/html"; + boundary="----MultipartBoundary--4fSd6P1gaRsZlXlswdrlvu173LC44ILqgRcmiVk59h----" + + +------MultipartBoundary--4fSd6P1gaRsZlXlswdrlvu173LC44ILqgRcmiVk59h---- +Content-Type: text/html +Content-ID: +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Location: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/17115 + + + =20 + + + + + + + + =20 + + + =20 + + + + + =20 + + =20 + + + + =20 + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + =20 + + Support WASIX =C2=B7 Issue #17115 =C2=B7 ziglang/zig + + + + + + =20 + + + + + + + + + + + =20 + + + + + + + + + + + + + //vol= +tron/issues_fragments/issue_layout" data-turbo-transient=3D"true"> + + =20 + + + + + =20 + + + + + + + =20 + + + + + + <= +meta name=3D"twitter:card" content=3D"summary_large_image"> + + =20 + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
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    + =20 + + pr= +oposal + + This issue suggests modifications. If it also has the "accepted" la= +bel then it is planned. + label + + + Sep 11, 20234 days ago + +
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    =F0=9F=92=8E $5,000 bounty creat= +ed by @syrusakbary
    +=F0=9F=91=89 To claim this bounty, submit your pull request = +on Algora
    +=F0=9F=93=9D Before proceeding, please make sure you can receive payouts in your country
    +=F0=9F=92=B5 Payment arrives in your account 2-5 days after the bounty is r= +ewarded
    +=F0=9F=92=AF You keep 100% of the bounty award
    +=F0=9F=99=8F Thank you for contributing to ziglang/zig!

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    Note: Wasmer just offered a $5,000 bounty on this issue.

    +

    Requirements

    +

    The bounty would be considered achieved when:

    +
      +
    • All C examples from wasix-libc can be compiled correctly from Zig direc= +tly into Wasm/WASIX and run properly with Wasmer: https://github.com/wasix-org/= +wasix-libc/tree/main/examples
      • +
    • Zig files can be compiled correctly to Wasm/WASIX, with custom examples= + working +
        +
      • Sockets
        • +
      • Process spawning
        • +
      • Piping
        • +
      +
      • +
    +
    +

    Info: while ideally the PR should be merged into Zig master= +, is not a necessary requirement to receive the bounty. As long as a fork e= +xists that fulfills the requirements laid out before, the bounty will be aw= +arded

    +
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    + hoangpq and Dispersia react= +ed with thumbs up emoji + +
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    I'll be taking a look at this.
    +Anyone interested in collaborating feel free to let me know.

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    Is it correct to assume that the first step shoul= +d be to integrate https= +://github.com/wasix-org/wasix-libc into wasi_= +libc.zig (Translating the wasix-libc= + Makefile steps), then get C prog= +rams (via zig cc) working, and then work= + on porting the wasm-related zig stdlib code to wasix-libc?

    +

    Working on it here https://github.com/git-bruh/zig

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    +

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    Yup, that seems like a reasonable approach @git-bruh .

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    @git-bruh That sounds like a reasona= +ble approach.
    +I've been trying the opposite, to start with manually specifying wasix-libc using the -= +-libc CLI argument with a finished build, however I'm a bit stuck on= + runtime errors in the startup code of the resulting wasm module.
    +It's possible that some flags or known workarounds in the wasi_libc.zig logic resolve those issues (or that my wasi= +x build got messed up for other reasons).

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    Question for your last part, wasix can run UDP in= + the browser? Or is that just worded in a way I am confusing. I thought eve= +n with wasm it wasn't possible to use UDP from the browser

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    Got a super hacky PoC working -- had to stub out = +a bunch of files that don't compile (related to pthreads and processes)

    +

    3D"20=

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    Alright, I've got something working, but it mi= +ght not be worthwhile progress yet. +

    I'm still hoping that wasi_libc= +.zig solves some of these issues, but it's probably not the only mis= +sing piece.

    +     +

    +

    +

    zig cc <C source file> --= +sysroot=3D...: Fails with undeclared fun= +ction errors, I might be doing it wrong.

    +

    This should be the easiest, because the wasix readme= + basically says clang is supposed to work / the only supported compiler= +.
    +The --sysroot argument is recognized (in= + that it doesn't lead to the error that unrecognized arguments do), but I k= +eep getting undefined function errors re= +gardless, so I assume Zig keeps choosing the packaged libc instead.

    +
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    zig build-exe <C source file= +> --libc=3D....: Works with tweaks / if code doesn't use TLS.

    + +

    Without much prior knowledge of linkers and WASM I might po= +ke around with binaryen's wasm-dis and wasm-as to see what the issue is.

    +
    +

    zig build-exe <Zig source fi= +le> --libc=3D...: Fails due to strange lookup failure of symbol <= +code class=3D"notranslate">main.
    +libc.a somehow depends on main but doesn't find it. This might have to do with <= +a href=3D"https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/16772" data-hovercard-type= +=3D"issue" data-hovercard-url=3D"/ziglang/zig/issues/16772/hovercard">expor= +ting behavior, not sure.
    +Should probably look for differences between wa= +six-libc and the bundled wasi-libc, since the latter works.

    +

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    @Dispersia How I understand it is that WAS= +IX is a standardization effort of features beyond WASI, like UDP sockets. +For now (only?) Wasmer supports the standard, but the goal would be for oth= +er environments (like Browsers) to also support it in the future.

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    @rohlem Some of the errors at runtime wh= +en using threads/processes are probably an upstream thing, they happen for = +me even when compiling everything using the official wasi-sdk toolchain

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    3D"20=

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    @git-bruh Great progress!
    +Interesting, from looking at the Makefile it seemed like at some point<= +/em> a single-threaded build without TLS should have worked by just excludi= +ng those files.

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    Yeah many parts of the Makefile are broken, like the globs = +unconditionally include threading-related code even if it's disabled

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    + <= +img class=3D"avatar rounded-2 avatar-user" src=3D"https://avatars.githubuse= +rcontent.com/u/12723818?s=3D80&u=3Dc7e09f035120194ae2328203c40d48a1da49= +0613&v=3D4" width=3D"40" height=3D"40" alt=3D"@ifreund"> + +
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    Before people put large amounts of effort into im= +plementing this, let's make clear that this is a feature request/proposal w= +hich has not (yet?) been accepted by the Zig leadership.

    +

    As for my personal take, I see WASIX as an effort to port l= +egacy POSIX APIs (including many with questionable design such as fork()) t= +o WASM. This of course makes it technically easier to port existing program= +s relying on these legacy POSIX APIs to WASM but I worry about how runtimes= + could possibly implement this API surface securely while maintaining reaso= +nable performance. It frankly seems quite like "containers, but with extra = +steps"

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    Furthermore, It appears to be driven by a single company wh= +ich is also responsible for the only implementation. I don't any informatio= +n on the standardization process and can only assume that it is not open. W= +ithout any 3rd party implementations including support in browsers, I think= + adding support to the Zig standard library would be quite premature.

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    Overall, I do not see how supporting WASIX in upstream Zig= + aligns with the goals and values of the Zig project.

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    + nektro, kubkon, jadamcrain,= + Sobeston, sin-ack, LinuxUserGD, pseudomata, and iamtimmy reacted with thum= +bs up emoji + Dispersia reacted with thum= +bs down emoji +
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    @ifreund The way I see it, if WASIX is= + a functional libc, and Zig allows users= + to provide a custom libc, then there sh= +ouldn't be harm in ironing out bugs (in both projects) to enable that suppo= +rt.

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    Zig is of course free to decide not to ship with it, and no= +t to mention it as supported target, nor in the official std module.
    +But a third-party package should ultimately be able to offer all of the sam= +e functionality via the Bring-Your-Own-OS mechanism, right?
    +(Only difference being users have to add the corresponding entry to their p= +rojects' build.zon.)

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    Choose a reason for hiding this comment

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    The reason will be displayed to describe this comment t= +o others. Learn more about hid= +ing comments.

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    Furthermore, It appears to be driven by a single company wh= +ich is also responsible for the only implementation. I don't any informatio= +n on the standardization process and can only assume that it is not open +

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    You may have missed this, posting here in case is useful: <= +a href=3D"https://wasix.org/docs/community-and-governance" rel=3D"nofollow"= +>https://wasix.org/docs/community-and-governance

    +

    Note: WASIX governance is completely open up for any develo= +per and/or company that wants to contribute or collaborate (including yours= +elf, if you feel that being part of WASIX could be useful for you!) :)

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    Without any 3rd party implementations including support in = +browsers

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    WASIX programs can fully run in the browser (as reflected i= +n the wasix.org homepag= +e).
    +If you want to see a very cool demo, please visit: https://wasmer.io/ and type wasmer run python! =F0=9F=9A=80

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    I do not see how supporting WASIX in upstream Zig aligns wi= +th the goals and values of the Zig project

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    I hope you will eventually be able to see the long-term val= +ue that WASIX could provide to Zig, and hopefully, the work done here by so= +me of the contributors may help to showcase the value of WASIX to the Zig c= +ommunity.

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    Here are a few examples that would be enabled: being able t= +o run Zig compiler anywhere (without restrictions, including Zig+LLVM zig cc running on the browser), or using Zig = +a package in other ecosystems (including JS!), allowing any Zig program run= +nable anywhere and so on...

    +

    As previously commented, the reward will be awarded to the = +developer who fulfills the requirements laid out on the same thread.
    +We would really love if Zig adopted WASIX upstream (I believe we will have = +very cool demos to showcase why this may be useful for others!), but mergin= +g upstream is not a requirement for awarding the $5,000 sponsorship.

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    Keep up the good work!

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    Just wanted to give my two cents on why I will no= +t be participating in this bounty. I contacted Syrus over the weekend about= + a post he made in the zig discord a couple months ago about how wasmer wer= +e interested in zig compiler support for wasix and were interested in spons= +oring the necessary work. I told him I was interested in a sponsorship &= +; he responded Monday morning with a link to a newly created bounty. (This = +feels like slimy behaviour to me; why turn something that should be a very = +straightforward agreement into some stressful rush for cash? Is this a PR m= +ove to try and create excitement for wasix, or a way to get the time of mul= +tiple developers while only paying one?). Upon further thought I realised t= +hat it didn't make sense for it to be in the zig compiler anyway, and his c= +ompany wouldn't have the ability to maintain such a fork long term (& l= +ikely not the budget to do so either). Unless they have the developer time = +to take ownership of maintaining it for years then it's a largely pointless= + endeavour. The final nail in the coffin for me is this article - even if s= +ome of this is true I would highly recommend not working with the wasmer co= +mpany or Syrus https://mnt.io/2021/10/04/i-leave-wasmer/

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