Improvements (enhancements) for Windows Explorer

[nvaccessAuto]

Reported by k_kolev1985 on 2013-04-14 09:39
I would like to suggest a few improvements for the way in witch NVDA works with Windows Explorer.

1. When opening a folder, NVDA at present seams not to alert us when the folder is empty. I think that when we press NVDA+TAB or NVDA+UpArrow, NVDA should say either "0 items" or "This folder is empty" (or something similar). At present - it doesn't and a user (specially a beginner) may get confused if there are any items in the opened folder or not. Note, that sighted users can visually see if there are any items in the folder. Not only that, but in the container where the items should be, there is a text message witch says "This folder is empty". When I point that message, NVDA reads it, so I guess that it is accessible in some way. May be NVDA could be made to read that message (?).
2. It would be more informative, if NVDA reports not only the state of the tree-view item when we collapse or expand it, but also its name. That way the user will more easily know witch tree-view item has he expanded/collapsed.
3. When we enter in a folder with only 1 item in it and the item is not selected, NVDA says its name and that it is not selected. But when we press spacebar to selected, NVDA says only "selected", but doesn't say what was selected. I think that it should also say the name of the item when selecting it with spacebar.

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 1 by jscholes (in reply to comment description) on 2013-04-14 11:26
Replying to k_kolev1985:

1. When we enter in a folder with only 1 item in it and the item is not selected, NVDA says its name and that it is not selected. But when we press spacebar to selected, NVDA says only "selected", but doesn't say what was selected. I think that it should also say the name of the item when selecting it with spacebar.

This is the case in all folders, regardless of number of items, but to be honest I don't see why there would be any ambiguity here. You hear the name of an item, hit space, and that item is selected. Why do you need to hear the name of that item again?

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 2 by tspivey on 2014-12-22 06:29

1. explorer doesn't fire a UIA focus event when entering an empty folder.
2. With UIA off, I hear when I enter an empty folder after pressing enter

[bhavyashah]

From the ticket body, 1 needs to most definitely be taken into account. With regards to 3, I concur with #3152 (comment). Similarly, 2 also sounds like unneeded verbosity like 3. If all of us agree about this, may we narrow the scope of this ticket only to the first pointer?

[Adriani90]

In case of 1., NVDA says "list view item 1" if there is at least an item in the list. If there is no item NVDA says only the name of the folder and "list view" is not reported because there is nothing in the list. So I think this is a clear sign that there is no element in a list. In my view we can live with that.

[Adriani90]

In case of 2. NVDA does not report the name of the element expanded in tree view, but it does report the level of elements in the tree view (i.e. if you press right arrow and expand an element NVDA report "level 3"). This is also clear information that the level 2 object is expanded.

[Adriani90]

I agree with number 3. There is no reporting of selected element in a list in Windows explorer when pressing space bar.

[Adriani90]

overall, we must be cautious in implementing too much verbosity in NVDA. This could really make NVDA inefficient. In my view, lots of information is clearly spoken, we just have to learn how to interpret it.

[k-kolev1985]

@Adriani90 I understand your cautiousness about implementing too much verbosity into NVDA, but we must think from the perspective of the beginner users as well, for whom more verbosity may be required/recommended.

Even if we don't consider my statement above, sighted users do see at least 2 clear indications for the fact that a folder is empty: they do see that there are no items in it and there is a text saying that the folder is empty. NVDA users don't get either of those indications directly and they have to make interpretations/guesses for the fact that a folder is empty, which is not good, specially for beginner users.

As for 2 and 3 - I would still prefer for them to be implemented into NVDA, but they are minor things and I can drop them out if the majority of NVDA users think that such information is superfluous.

[ABuffEr]

Hi,
I agree with point 1. I have attempted to fix in ColumnsReview, but unfortunately with success only for SysListView32 and similar, I found no solution to catch empty situation in new Explorer DirectUIHWND.
About it, can anyone explain more clearly the comment about UIA off?
However, I prefer to have "0 elements" indication, even if I'm not so beginner, because of occasionally concurrent speech or temporary Explorer freezes.

[josephsl]

Hi,

2023 update: regarding item 1, Javi wrote an add-on (Explorer Enhancements) that resolves the first issue partially - it doesn't report empty folder text when selective UIA event registration is on. Given that File Explorer is now a UIA world, I doubt this can be fixed easily from NVDA side unless Microsoft takes @jcsteh's comment from #5759.

P.S. I did offer to take Javi's add-on into Windows App Essentials add-on to reduce duplication and make the fix available to more people, but I realized that this can add to stress and can overwhelm me. Javi resolves this by listening to name change and focus entered events, the latter allows NVDA to say "folder is empty" when you tab to header control (name, size, etc.).

As for selection and collapse/expanded tree view item announcement (items 2 and 3): this is a state change event. I haven't come across state change events that will announce control name - NVDA's own user interface does raise state change events through MSAA, and you don't hear NVDA announce the name of the control you are on while states are changing (say, checking various NVDA settings checkboxes).

I think verbosity is important, but what's more important for me is consistency - I think NVDA should provide a consistent output unless justified otherwise. For item 1, yes this is a File Explorer bug - hope it can be resolved soon (Narrator also suffers from no "folder is empty" announcement bug). For items 2 and 3, while increased verbosity can benefit some, it runs contrary to the user experience of state change events.

As Bhavya noted, if we are to focus on item 1, then I advise closing this issue in favor of #5759 unless people can provide justifications to pursue items 2 and 3 also.

Thanks.

[josephsl]

Hi,

One year later: item 1 is fixed in recent Windows Insider build (tested with 26052 and later). As I wrote a year ago (see above), I vote to close this if people would like to let this issue focus on empty folder announcement in File Explorer.

Thanks.

[seanbudd]

Closing for reasons joseph outlined. a new issue up to date would be appreciated for any remaining issues