better communicate our policy on sexual content

[chadwhitacre]

We're getting a minor influx of users from Patreon in light of the new Community Guidelines they developed in response to 8chan joining Patreon. Some background:

• http://pastie.org/9793622
• http://www.patreon.com/user?u=162165
• https://twitter.com/infinitechan/status/546601585669730304
• https://twitter.com/MeinosKaen/status/547005491642396672
• https://twitter.com/Taosym/status/547145680376967168
• https://gratipay.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/1511 (login required)
• https://gratipay.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/1501 (login required)

What do we want to do here?

Want to back this issue? Post a bounty on it! We accept bounties via Bountysource.

[chadwhitacre]

Note that Balanced doesn't allow funding of porn (since, as I understand it, fraud is higher as a rule for that category):

You may not use the Balanced Services in any way that [...] relates to sales of [...] sexually-oriented materials or services[.]

Where are we drawing the line between porn and art? I've emailed Balanced to ask for guidance from their point of view.

[clone1018]

None of the porn or art is being hosted on Gratipay though, so does the Balanced thing apply?

[chadwhitacre]

Balanced:

We defer to the gold 'ole "I know it when I see it" test, because yay for the first amendment! But seriously, just use your best judgement, and if we hear any complaints from upstream we'll just let you know.

[chadwhitacre]

None of the porn or art is being hosted on Gratipay though

Correct, per section 5 of https://gratipay.com/about/terms/.

so does the Balanced thing apply?

Depends on interpretation.

[chrisdev]

H'mm I think we just have to monitor them for now. Lots of their boards are non offensive but I've noted topics like"young girls (non nude)" This sort of thing can lead to complaints from our users. If we get theses we may will have to act

[colindean]

See my lengthy post on #118, but I basically feel like there's no action Gratipay can take toward infinitechan within its current terms and conditions because the controversial content isn't on Gratipay.

Moreover, this begs the question: where does a giving to a person end and giving to that person's work begin? The software behind 8chan is open source, so infinitechan is by that measure actually one of our original target users. But then infinitechan also hosts an instance of that software, towards which they have a largely hands-off moderation policy.

Another way to think of it is this: If Reddit created a Gratipay account, would we also be considering banning its account, since Reddit allows sexual submissions? The sole and potentially damning difference being that Reddit itself doesn't host the controversial image files, but it does host sexual text.

I think the only action Gratipay could take in this to make clear its policies is to state what users can and cannot say in their Gratipay profile as to what gifting to them funds, but users will circumvent that by either omitting the things that are against terms or using double entendre to skirt the terms.

[techtonik]

Threatening users with terms and conditions is not something that one does because of love and gratitude. If there is anything wrong with what people do, its their own responsibility. But they should know why some people think it is wrong. Porn is an industry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRJ_QfP2mhU It could be subculture like open source, like gothic music, or street art, but most culture is now commercialized by people, who make money. Gratipay is something that allows subcultures to state their existence, and at the same time, due to the global and public nature of Gratipay, it won't be an isolated subculture anymore, and it may become in a conflict with others.

if we hear any complaints from upstream is a good way too. Gratipay can not monitor everything that users do, esp. if their accounts are hacked. It probably worth to all complains to go through some professional site like https://www.chillingeffects.org/ that tracks censorship on the internet.

It is possible to develop tools to limit the exposure of accounts from each subgroup to other, to allow people to preserve their own community culture, and allow people to mark profiles as 'classified' - not only 'adult only', but dozens of other communities that will face difficulties if exposed openly on the Gratipay pages. Not because they are doing something illegal, but because there are many opinions on the Internet, so if you want to preserve diversity, you shouldn't place rabbits and pythons into the same cage.

[AManInBlack]

It's not just a matter of porn, for what it's worth. 8chan also hosts boards like baphomet, cow, and others, for organizing harassment, up to and including straight up crime.

http://boingboing.net/2015/01/19/invasion-boards-set-out-to-rui.html

More examples:
https://twitter.com/a_man_in_black/status/563077608385310720
http://imgur.com/YdWh4MJ
http://imgur.com/HORjBwR - Note the Board Owner participating in harassment, meaning reports are futile

These are cropped, but I can provide more complete versions if necessary.

At the top of each page, it says "If you can, please donate: [...] support infinity development at Gratipay." Is this the sort of userbase Gratipay is looking to cultivate?

[chadwhitacre]

Implicit +1 on firming up the policy from https://gratipay.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/1778.

[chadwhitacre]

I think we should adopt a blanket "no" to people such as FD1778 who are asking "Can I fund my adult project on Gratipay?" They should use Offbeatr instead.

[chadwhitacre]

Objections?

[chadwhitacre]

Another one: https://gratipay.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/1808.

My reply:

Thanks for asking. It's a bit buried (in Balanced Payments' acceptable use policy), but Gratipay isn't the right fit for porn. We recommend Offbeatr.

Best of luck! :-)

[chadwhitacre]

[...] offbeatr wants me to send them a pic of me holding government ID [...]

Me:

Well, we're going to have to start doing the same before too long, too:

#417 (comment)

Sorry. :-/

[rohitpaulk]

They should use Offbeatr instead.

Offbeatr is more of a kickstarter clone, and doesn't seem to offer weekly recurring payments.

[blrhc]

@rohitpaulk, that isn't really our problem.

[chadwhitacre]

@rohitpaulk Are you aware of an adult-oriented option that's closer to our model than Offbeatr is? Happy to recommend that instead.

[chadwhitacre]

https://gratipay.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/tickets/1925

[chadwhitacre]

This run through team review now.