STAC on Roland V-160HD #55

feta00 · 2024-02-16T11:50:16Z

feta00
Feb 16, 2024

Hello,
after trying to figure out why I keep getting a BPX (the big purple X as it is called on STAC documentation) I think I probably figured out why.

Smart tally on V-160HD works on a per INPUT base, not per CHANNEL.
When I open up a browser pointing the mixer IP address the web page asks me to choose an input to monitor (HDMI 1-8 or SDI 1-8), it doesn't allow me to monitor a channel.
Selecting one of the inputs, let's say HDMI 1, the resulting web page is like this:
http://192.168.20.99/tally/hdmi_1

The same syntax is used for the other inputs, so for example for SDI 3, would be sdi_3.

I suspect that, since STAC was built upon V60-HD mixer, the smart tally on this unit works on a channel base (or a different input naming), so STAC keeps asking my V160 the status of a non-existing channel/input and then times-out.
I can't check it on my own since we don't own one of these units, but I'd love to make STAC work on V-160HD and maybe could be useful for others.

Thanks for any feedback!
And congratulations for the great work in creating STAC!

Xylopyrographer · 2024-02-16T18:10:02Z

Xylopyrographer
Feb 16, 2024
Maintainer

@feta00

I think it'd be awesome to get STAC working with the V-160HD!

Would you be able to run a telnet session to pull some info?

In a terminal window could you do the following (assuming 192.168.20.99 is the IP address of your switcher and it's listening to http requests on port 80. Also hoping they haven't moved to https:// 😬).

$ telnet 192.168.20.99 80

GET /index.html HTTP/1.1

Copy the entire session & paste it into a reply.

Hopefully something like this should come back (though the web page will be smushed into one very long line):

~ % telnet 192.168.20.99 80   <---- type this. may need to change '80' to the correct port.
Trying 192.168.20.99...
Connected to 192.168.20.99.
Escape character is '^]'.

GET /index.html HTTP/1.1      <---- type this. something like what follows should come back.

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Connection: Keep-Alive
Content-Length: 1387
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Server: Roland V-160HD

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Connection: Keep-Alive
Content-Length: 1387
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Server: Roland V-60HD

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC"-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"><html lang="en">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<script type="text/javascript">

var get_model=new XMLHttpRequest();
get_model.addEventListener('load',function(ev)
{
document.title='Roland '+get_model.response;
document.getElementById('model').textContent=get_model.response;
});
get_model.open('GET','/system/model');
get_model.send();

var get_npuver=new XMLHttpRequest();
get_npuver.addEventListener('load',function(ev){document.getElementById('npu_ver').textContent=get_npuver.response;
});
get_npuver.open('GET','/npu/version');
get_npuver.send();

var get_systemver=new XMLHttpRequest();
get_systemver.addEventListener('load',function(ev){document.getElementById('system_ver').textContent=get_systemver.response;
});
get_systemver.open('GET','/system/version');
get_systemver.send();

</script>
<style type="text/css">li{font-size:xx-large}
</style>
<title>Roland</title>
</head>
<body>
<ul>
<li>Model<ul>
<li id="model">
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>System Version<ul>
<li id="system_ver">
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>NPU Version<ul>
<li id="npu_ver">
</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Channel Status(Tally)<ul>
<li>
<a href="/tally/1">Ch.1</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/tally/2">Ch.2</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/tally/3">Ch.3</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/tally/4">Ch.4</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/tally/5">Ch.5</a>
</li>
<li>
<a href="/tally/6">Ch.6</a>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</body>
</html>

That should return the details needed to allow the STAC to query the right input.

Thanks.

1 reply

feta00 Feb 16, 2024
Author

Hi and thanks for the prompt reply.
I will try asap and post the results.

feta00 · 2024-02-19T12:32:20Z

feta00
Feb 19, 2024
Author

hi, I wasn't able to run a telnet session for some reason I ignore, but I verified that http is being used and port 80 is open.
I'm attaching the html page source code, maybe is enough for you?
Let me know! Thanks.

v-160.pdf

0 replies

Xylopyrographer · 2024-02-20T01:32:52Z

Xylopyrographer
Feb 20, 2024
Maintainer

@feta00

OK. Put together a test version for you in the v160-dev branch.

Check the README.md file for things you'll need to know first.

Pull down the code from there, give it a test & let me know what happens.

There is a .bin file in there if you'll rather just use the OTA update feature of the STAC.

1 reply

feta00 Feb 20, 2024
Author

Hi, thanks for superfast feedback.
I gave it a try, installed STAC through ESP flasher using the bin file, all OK, could select one of the 16 channels but there we go again: BPX... So sad! Anything I can do to further investigate?

Thanks for your efforts.

Xylopyrographer · 2024-02-25T23:00:10Z

Xylopyrographer
Feb 25, 2024
Maintainer

@feta00

Hi. I replied last week but seems that note disappeared. Apologies.

OK, we're very close. To get it working, need to capture a few transactions between the browser and the V-160HD after you select a channel to monitor. It appears Roland may have changed the tally status response message on that model.

Wonder if you could give a telnet season another go, as that way we can poke a message to the switch and check individual responses?

Wireshark would also work, but that can be a bit of a bear to set up.

I'm reaching out to a few other sources to see if anyone else might be able to grab the transaction data as well.

1 reply

feta00 Feb 26, 2024
Author

Hi. I’ll sure try again and come back to you.
Hope to have time today or tomorrow.
Have a good day!

feta00 · 2024-02-26T17:04:45Z

feta00
Feb 26, 2024
Author

Hi, wireshark was a good advice, took a while to understand how it works but I finally managed to get some traffic out, see files attached.
10.254.52.200 is V-160HD IP address, 10.254.52.129 is my pc.
I'm attaching wireshark screenshot and two text files corresponding to traffic from switcher to pc and viceversa.

Hope this helps.

Frame 63198 404 bytes on wire (3232.txt
Frame 63191 60 bytes on wire (480 b.txt

8 replies

Xylopyrographer Feb 27, 2024
Maintainer

All good.

At least the replies are somewhat consistent with the V-60HD.

The V-60HD will respond to "short" and "long" tally status requests. The STAC at the moment only uses the short form (expecting a short form response). You've managed to confirm that the V-160HD works on the long form for requests & replies. 👍 The BPX shown on the STAC is because it it expecting a short form response. (Bit more info in the STAC Communications.md document.)

To test for short form requests and responses from the V-160HD, would need to get telnet working. Then you could poke short form requests to the switch and see what (if anything) comes back. The short form would be as described in the STAC Communications.md except the request would be of the form GET /tally/[channel]/status where channel is hdmi_n or sdi_n with n between 1 and 8.

I noticed this set of files has a different IP address for the switch. You have two V-160HD's? Probably worth checking, but assuming the STAC is configured to talk to the correct IP address?

feta00 Feb 27, 2024
Author

no, we have one, but yesterday I just connected the switcher and pc to the lan in the venue I was working in.
Today I used the little AP I settled up to use with the STACs, that uses other IPs.. that's why they are different.

I wish I could get telnet working but no luck so far.
Could it be that the switcher does not support telnet? quite old protocol... maybe they cut it out.
I'll try again but I'm not very positive...

Xylopyrographer Feb 27, 2024
Maintainer

Might be the switcher rejecting a telnet session. 🤔

As the STAC isn't sending stuff via a standard HTTP session (Roland's version) WireShark might nor pick it up using its HTTP protocol stack. I ca look in a bit to see if WS does indeed have a "raw" mode.

Appreciate the work you're doing.

feta00 Feb 27, 2024
Author

Hi. Just found out on roland remote control manual that Telnet is enabled on V-160HD but uses port 8023, not 80.
This might be the problem.
I’ll try again tomorrow morning.

Xylopyrographer Feb 28, 2024
Maintainer

Ah. Excellent 👍.

feta00 · 2024-02-28T12:13:19Z

feta00
Feb 28, 2024
Author

ok, so... one step forward.
Telnet connection ok, tried GET /tally/[channel]/status as you suggested (changing channel with one of the inputs), but I get ERR0, which appears to be a syntax error.

We did some research in roland documentation and made some testing using commands provided: the switcher replies correctly.

In particular this one example is interesting (you find it through the link above) and may be useful for our purposes:

Example: Tally status of HDMI Input 3 on the crosspoint

If HDMI Input 3 is the PGM and/or PST selection, it will return a status value other than 0
If HDMI Input 3 is not assigned to the crosspoint, the status value will always be 0
Not the same as the tally light output, but may help control some third party tally systems

RQH:0C0002,000001;
Selects channel 3 on the PGM row of the Crosspoint

RQH is the wrapper command
0C 00 02 is the address of the HDMI Input 3 Tally Status SysEx command
00 00 01 is the address size
The control system receives the status as DTH:0C0002,0X

If HDMI Input 3 is selected as Nothing, X=0, PGM, X=1, PST, X=2, PGM & PST, X=3

We tried this RQH above using telnet and the switcher replies 0 if unselected, 1 if PGM etc.

All the codes for the inputs are in this V-160HD_Control_eng04_W.pdf at page 31. Other maybe useful info are at page 37.

Don't know if this could work in STACs or help us but I thought it could maybe be useful mentioning it.

2 replies

Xylopyrographer Feb 28, 2024
Maintainer

Hi. Interesting stuff for sure. Though I think that is all about controlling the V-160HD over a LAN connection. I'm guessing that port 8023 is for the remote control stuff, not the one used for the SmartTally feature. (Same port is used by the Roland RCS software.)

Just to confirm, trying to telnet into port 80 fails?

Did you try again to use Wireshark to monitor communications between the STAC and the V-160HD?

feta00 Feb 28, 2024
Author

You’re probably right.
Today I didn’t have enough time but I’ll try again tomorrow, both telnet and wireshark.

feta00 · 2024-02-29T18:35:53Z

feta00
Feb 29, 2024
Author

Hi, so I confirm that telnet to port 80 fails.

The only communication the STAC does is this ARP broadcast:
ARP.txt

Below you find the TCP and HTTP communications between the pc running smart tally web page and the switcher, the lines selected in the screenshot keeps repeating...

All selected lines are in this text file:
ALL.txt

I'm sorry I can't give you more infos but I noticed that the server inside the V-160HD is this so called lwIP and I wonder if it is the same they put inside V-60HD... maybe not..

Thanks for your time, appreciated!

5 replies

Xylopyrographer Mar 1, 2024
Maintainer

This is actually quite interesting and useful. 👍

Can you confirm a couple things:

192.168.2.99 is the IP address assigned to the STAC by the router?
The IP address of the switch is 192.168.2.101?
On the STAC, could you connect up a serial terminal to it, reset the STAC and send along a copy of the output? See as well the "Using screen for STAC Information.md" file.
Have you set the IP address of the V-160HD as "static" or "Manual" so it remains fixed?

The ARP thing is the STAC doing its thing to ID itself for mdns.

Let me noodle over things for a day or two & I'll get back to you.

feta00 Mar 1, 2024
Author

No, the V-160HD IP is 192.168.20.99 and is fixed by a rule in router’s DHCP.

192.168.20.101 is the pc where chrome browsing smart tally web page was up and running.

The STAC IP is 192.168.20.100 and the only traffic it does is that ARP.

I’ll try the serial terminal thing.
By “reset” you mean “restart”?

feta00 Mar 1, 2024
Author

hi, here the screen result...
Output di Terminale salvato.txt

Xylopyrographer Mar 1, 2024
Maintainer

OK. Thanks for the clarification and the screen dump.

Let me noodle on this for a day or two & I'll get back to you. 👍

feta00 Mar 1, 2024
Author

Sure, no hurries, take your time..
Consider also I will be on vacation next week (March, 4th-12th) so I could read mails and stuff but won't be able to do any testing.

feta00 · 2024-03-18T11:08:12Z

feta00
Mar 18, 2024
Author

Hi, any news from your noodling? :-)
I'm back and ready to rock! 👍

9 replies

feta00 Apr 5, 2024
Author

Hi, I'm running v3.0.1 on my device, I updated the firmware since I really needed some of the new features, as you said there is no mention to smart tally in the release notes..
If you need another capture I could do that on Monday.

I believe anyway that they did not make any changes to smart tally and they did not switch to https (but I will check and come back to you); only thing they put up I the authentication I was mentioning..

feta00 Apr 6, 2024
Author

Hi. I confirm they did not switch to HTTPS, still HTTP but with authentication.
Let me know if you need another set of capture. Thanks

Xylopyrographer Apr 6, 2024
Maintainer

Good news. Would you be able to do a WS capture from the start of the connection of a browser to the switch that includes the authentication request and to including a couple of tally status requests?

A screen shot of the Smart Tally browser authentication request would be handy too.

With v3.01 of the V-160HD software, how is the STAC responding?

FWIW, poking through the switcher docs, looks like the username and password are used only when you want to control the switcher via the LAN. Ref V-160HD_Reference_eng06_W.pdf, page 116.

Xylopyrographer Apr 8, 2024
Maintainer

Took another look at the scan files you sent earlier. Think I figured out what is going on.

I'll try and get another version for you to test later this week.

No need to capture more info until after that (or not at all if it works!).

feta00 Apr 8, 2024
Author

Great! Look forward to hear from you then!

Xylopyrographer · 2024-04-10T23:47:43Z

Xylopyrographer
Apr 10, 2024
Maintainer

@feta00

Good day. Release v160-dev_0.4 is available in the v160-dev branch. Binary is there as well. Load it up and give it a whirl after reading the notes in the README.md file, especially the requirement for the user and password in the LAN Control menu of the V-160HD.

It would be useful to do a WS capture between a browser and the switch starting from when the browser first starts things by sending the IP address of the switch through to a couple of tally request transactions.

Looking at the Wireshark does, though it and the PC running it can be configured to monitor traffic not involving that PC, it is a rather arduous process and may not even be possible on a machine running Windows so we'll forego that.

A photo go the switch LAN Control menu would be useful as well.

Looking forward to what you find!

4 replies

feta00 Apr 11, 2024
Author

Hi. Thanks for your efforts, I will try as soon as possible, probably on Monday 15th, and come back to you.

feta00 Apr 16, 2024
Author

Hi, so I gave it a go, here the results.

I still get a BPX on STAC, only difference with previous version is that it takes around 10 seconds to appear on the screen, while before it took maybe 1 second or 2. Maybe it's related to the login process...
I'm atttaching a short movie so you better understand.

I'm attaching another wireshark scan between the switcher and the browser, it begins with the login process and should include a couple of tally requests on HDMI1.
I tried a scan between the STAC and the switcher but again, no packets.

I'm also attaching a picture of the login on the browser and the LAN menu on the switcher.

Let me know if you need anything else.

login_capture_hdmi1_pgm_pst_uns.zip

Stac_red.mp4

Xylopyrographer Apr 16, 2024
Maintainer

Thanks for the great bunch of info and your tenacity in hanging in there while we figure this out.

So yes, the issue is getting past the authentication screen.

I'll work on another version that logs and dumps the traffic between the STAC and the V-160HD. Might take a bit to fit that in.

Interestingly, the WS capture didn't log the authentication transaction. That page would be of interest.

It looks like you're using Chrome? Could you get back to the V-160HD login screen and then in Chrome go to View--> Developer--> View Source and then paste the page here.

Also as a test, can the LAN user and password be disabled on the V-160HD? If so, could you retry the STAC after disabling that?

I'm very certain that this will work once we get the authentication sorted.

feta00 Apr 18, 2024
Author

Hi, I tried to view the source of the login screen but chrome just opened another tab with the same webpage, no html code at all.
I tried with chrome developer tools, but all I get is a pretty empty html page with some css on it, that's it.
I'm attaching a small video describing this:

login_screen_red.mp4

What I noticed in the developer tools is this warning:
One or more documents in this page is in Quirks Mode, which will render the affected document(s) with quirks incompatible with the current HTML and CSS specifications. Quirks Mode exists mostly due to historical reasons. If this is not intentional, you can add or modify the DOCTYPE to be to render the page in No Quirks Mode.

I'm attaching the source code of the webpage that opens up after the login, but I doubt it would be useful.
And no, LAN user and password doesn't seem can be disabled. You can't even change the username, which has to be "user".

view-source_192.168.20.99.zip

Xylopyrographer · 2024-04-25T06:05:15Z

Xylopyrographer
Apr 25, 2024
Maintainer

Quick update. Had other things that needed doing , back to looking at this again.

Should have another test version in a week or so.

1 reply

feta00 Apr 25, 2024
Author

yep, no problem! have a good day!

Xylopyrographer · 2024-04-28T05:40:03Z

Xylopyrographer
Apr 28, 2024
Maintainer

@feta00
Just posted dev-V0.5. A few things in the Release Notes to review, especially if you want t compile this version yourself.

There is a lot of debugging info sent the serial port with this one. Set the [polling interval to 1000 ms at first to see how it goes.

In any case, please post the initial STAC serial port info dump and a few rounds of the polling cycle so I can see what's up.

1 reply

feta00 Apr 28, 2024
Author

Hi, I'm a bit in a hurry but just wanted to say that I just gave it a quick try and it works like a charm! 🥳

Xylopyrographer · 2024-04-28T20:30:44Z

Xylopyrographer
Apr 28, 2024
Maintainer

Fantastic! 🍾 😄

When you do get a minute, the serial port data dumps would be useful.

I've uploaded now a binary version without the debugging code - it's in the /bin directory. Give that a try with the polling interval set to something around the default of 300 ms.

I'll let you run with that for a bit. There's is still some clean-up to do and then decide how to integrate this into the web setup pages and how to allow a user to pick the switch model when doing the configuration. Would appreciate any thoughts you might have, for example:

allow min and max tally channel to be set by the user for the HDMI and SDI banks?
allow a "user" name for the V-160HD network user name to be set?

Regarding the network password setting on the V-160HD: does it allow any character to be used in the password, or just numbers or ?? Does it have to be 4 characters or can it be from 0 to 4?

1 reply

feta00 Apr 29, 2024
Author

Hi, I will for sure post the serial port dumps as soon as I can.

Regarding the switcher selection, I'm not sure it would be better to have a single version of STAC with a switcher selection or two separate versions of STAC, one for each model.. I guess it depends on the amount of work required to integrate the V-160 version with the old V-60...

As for the tally channels, I think it would be better to have all the 16 channels always available to selection in the STACs, the selection is really easy and straightforward, so why make things more complicate than needed. Just my two cents of course...

As for the user, this can't be changed in the switcher, "user" is the only option available.
I'm quite sure the password has to be 4 numbers, and no other characters rather than numbers; I will check it anyway just to be sure.

Xylopyrographer · 2024-05-09T20:20:10Z

Xylopyrographer
May 9, 2024
Maintainer

@feta00 : Just published a new release adding V-160HD support. Please give it a go and shoot back any feedback.
Major thanks for all the work supporting this release and of course for proposing the addition.

Closing with #56

2 replies

feta00 May 10, 2024
Author

Hi. Sorry, I’ve been very busy and could not find the time to test further as I wished.
Will try asap but it could take me a couple of weeks. Sorry for that.
And thank you for your work, patience and support!

Xylopyrographer May 10, 2024
Maintainer

All good. Whenever you get around to it. 😄

STAC on Roland V-160HD #55

feta00 Feb 16, 2024

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