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Implement fit gradients for non-scalar components (see also #61) #87

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giacomofiorin opened this issue Oct 17, 2016 · 17 comments · Fixed by #713
Closed

Implement fit gradients for non-scalar components (see also #61) #87

giacomofiorin opened this issue Oct 17, 2016 · 17 comments · Fixed by #713
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documentation Only affects manual and other docs important stability

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@giacomofiorin
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giacomofiorin commented Oct 17, 2016

These would be easily calculated if the atomic gradients were stored in the atom group. Solving issue #61 would allow to solve this easily, too.

Meanwhile, a f_cvc_fit_gradients feature could be used to print a Warning message.

@giacomofiorin giacomofiorin added documentation Only affects manual and other docs stability labels Oct 17, 2016
@jhenin
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jhenin commented Dec 12, 2016

Another benefit of that would be debugGradients on non-scalar cvcs.

@jhenin jhenin added bug To be used only in issues important labels Mar 15, 2017
@jhenin
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jhenin commented Mar 15, 2017

This is a likely cause behind a long-standing bug reported by Chris Chipot, FE calculations on a scripted coordinate based on a vector cvc.

@jhenin
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jhenin commented Mar 15, 2017

It would be nice to define a shortest path towards implementing this, if possible without all the changes envisioned in #61. But if necessary, that can be a good reason to speed up implementation of #61.

@giacomofiorin
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Before moving on with all other things, can you reproduce the bug conclusively?

@giacomofiorin
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To be precise: can you conclusively attribute the poor convergence of ABF in Chris's example to the lack of fit gradients? If that's the case, a test with a much larger fittingGroup should give smaller errors (vanishing for large group sizes).

@jhenin
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jhenin commented Mar 15, 2017

I can try, but I only expect a larger fittingGroup to distribute the counter-force on more atoms. Wouldn't the net counter-force would stay the same, as long as the fittingGroup describes the same frame of reference?

What I did though, is disable the fit gradients for a similar test where they were available, and I got similarly erroneous results. What I get from that test is that in that kind of applications (essentially receptor-ligand coordinates), the fit gradients are not optional.

@giacomofiorin
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I'm clarifying the scope of the issue, until it is resolved. The error applies to PMF calculations on vector variables with an external fitting group, which do not have a published implementation yet. All current PMF calculations (which are restricted to one or more scalar variables) are unaffected.

@jhenin
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jhenin commented Mar 16, 2017

It also affects pmf calculations on scalar variables that are scripted functions of vector components. That is a combination of documented features.

@giacomofiorin
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If the script uses vector variables it is, of course, affected. Making a vector variable into a scalar through a script doesn't change the flow of the underlying code.

@jhenin
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jhenin commented Apr 6, 2017

To avoid undetected incorrect behavior, the fit gradients should be available only when atomic gradients are calculated in the first place.

I see two levels at which it can be done:

  • move the enableFitGradients option/feature up to the CVC class, where it can be dependent on atomic gradients being calculated;
  • somehow enable atom groups to know whether they are provided with atomic gradients, so the check can be performed there.

To me the first option seems simpler, because I don't see cases where you'd want to control the fit gradients separately for different groups in one CVC, but maybe I'm missing something.

@giacomofiorin
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I also think that the first option is preferable in principle. The function cvm::atom_group::calc_fit_gradients() can become a function of the CVC base class with minimal changes.

@jhenin
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jhenin commented Apr 7, 2017

While working on this, it becomes clear to me that it the moving frame of reference system, in all applications I'm aware of, is CVC-wide. Whenever there are several atom groups, they are all fitted to the same group. I cannot imagine a meaningful case where you'd want to use different fitting groups. In practice, it is always the CVC that is calculated in a moving frame of reference, rather than individual atomic coordinates.

In that case, it is tempting to move the fitting options to the CVC altogether. As a bonus, a single fitting group would be shared by all atoms groups and the optimal rotation calculated only once. The fit gradients themselves would be summed over the parent groups, instead of accumulated separately for each group. In the case of internal coordinates, those summed fit gradients would cancel out.

[The applications as far as I know:

  • spherical and cylindrical coordinates (distanceXY/Z, polarTheta, polarPhi)
  • RMSD
  • eigenvector]

@giacomofiorin
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A meaningful case would be a symmetry-like variable that measures differences in the internal structures of a pair of equivalent macromolecules, each tumbling independently. Weird as it may be, I'd rather not invest effort on this, since it takes a bit of work and would not allow sharing the fitting group across variables or even CVC objects, anyway.

@jhenin
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jhenin commented Apr 7, 2017

Fair enough!

@jhenin
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jhenin commented Jun 23, 2017

Commit 31a232a, solves the case where fit gradients were silently missing, unbeknownst to the user. Therefore, downgrading this issue from bug to enhancement.

@HanatoK
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HanatoK commented Jul 2, 2024

I am now thinking of this issue. Do we really need explicit gradients for the fitting group? There should be a way for applying a force on a non-scalar CVC, and then passing the force to the fitting group using the chain rule, just like apply_force in the CVC.

@jhenin
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jhenin commented Jul 4, 2024

I agree that we don't need explicit gradients as long as forces can be propagated.

HanatoK added a commit to HanatoK/colvars that referenced this issue Sep 12, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
HanatoK added a commit to HanatoK/colvars that referenced this issue Sep 17, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
HanatoK added a commit to HanatoK/colvars that referenced this issue Sep 17, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
HanatoK added a commit to HanatoK/colvars that referenced this issue Sep 18, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
HanatoK added a commit to HanatoK/colvars that referenced this issue Oct 1, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
giacomofiorin pushed a commit to HanatoK/colvars that referenced this issue Oct 4, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
giacomofiorin pushed a commit to HanatoK/colvars that referenced this issue Oct 11, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
HanatoK added a commit to HanatoK/colvars that referenced this issue Oct 11, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
giacomofiorin pushed a commit to HanatoK/colvars that referenced this issue Oct 11, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
jhenin pushed a commit that referenced this issue Oct 15, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
giacomofiorin pushed a commit that referenced this issue Oct 24, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
jhenin pushed a commit that referenced this issue Dec 16, 2024
We have already had the algorithm for computing the gradients of the
fitting group from the gradients of the main group. In cases that the
gradients of the main group are not available, we can "intercept" the
forces applied to the main group, and then use the same algorithm to
convert the forces applied to the main group with the rotation to the
forces applied to the fitting group.
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